COMING SOON IN 2012

A quick glance at what Ken has in the production pipeline.

COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Ken Penders » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:09 pm

Ever since I registered my copyrights for all my stories, characters and concepts that had played a part in one of the most popular comic series ever published in the modern age, I've been planning how to answer numerous reader requests regarding how I eventually intended to continue those stories, resolving many if not all of the plot points that were left dangling due to unforeseen circumstances.

While my current legal situation with three well-known companies is still an ongoing matter, I've decided now is the time to finally launch the continuing saga of the Brotherhood of the Guardians and Dark Legion in graphic novel format, starting with the first image of one of the story's major characters, whom I first introduced to the world in the REUNIFICATION storyline several years ago.

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Check back here in the coming weeks for further images and details of the greatest adventure ever experienced by the First Family of Echidnaopolis. If you thought things were wild before, just wait.
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby The_Patman » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:13 pm

Awesome color scheme! It gives me new meaning to the phrase "pretty in pink!" :lol:

GET HYPE PEOPLE!
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Postby Paul-Agnew » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:00 am

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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Mavrickindigo » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:56 am

You hear that?

It's the sound of the fanbase exploding into civil war

Question: If you have the legal right to use this stuff, do you have the right to tell Archie to stop using your stuff? :(
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Ken Penders » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:03 pm

@Mavrickindigo:

Question: If you have the legal right to use this stuff, do you have the right to tell Archie to stop using your stuff?


Absolutely, that's why we're in litigation. I own the copyrights to my work, I'm defending them, and I'm going forward with projects utilizing the intellectual property that is legally mine. If I didn't own the copyrights, I wouldn't have standing in a court of law to prosecute those rights. The Federal Government recognizes the documents I have, therefore I have standing. ACP is not suing me for the copyrights because they have no standing in that regard, which is where a lot of people get confused over this matter.

Let me make this explicitly clear: ACP does not, has never and will never own anything published within the covers and pages of any SONIC or SONIC-related comic except for the actual books themselves. They have no claim to any of the characters, concepts and stories that the fans enjoy. There is no © Archie Comics anywhere on any of those books for precisely that reason.

As for why now, let's just say we're at a stage where I'm confident I will prevail moving forward with my work.
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Mavrickindigo » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:36 pm

Well that's all well and good. You wanna publish your stuff, go ahead. More power to you. I've just been concerned that you're going to force them to yank everything you've ever did out of the comics, leaving a good portion of the fan base high and dry. I mean your stuff is a foundation for quite a lot of what makes Archie Sonic great. To just yank them off would be needlessly cruel in my opinion.

If you want Archie to stop using your stuff like your characters and concepts and whatnot and have the authority to do such a thing, I ask you, as a fan, to at least let them come up with a good way to write those concepts out of the story, finish up storylines, complete character arcs, stuff like that.
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Ken Penders » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:02 pm

@Mavrickindigo:

If you want Archie to stop using your stuff like your characters and concepts and whatnot and have the authority to do such a thing, I ask you, as a fan, to at least let them come up with a good way to write those concepts out of the story, finish up storylines, complete character arcs, stuff like that.


I don't have a problem with that, but ACP would have to pay me for the right to do so, otherwise they would have no choice but to cease using everything I created immediately. That's what the current litigation is all about. Unless BOTH parties are willing to arrive at a solution, it ain't gonna happen otherwise.
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Gally » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:32 pm

You are kidding, right ?
That's Knuckles in drag. You will never be allowed to use that, using SEGA's style for the characters.
And if you can, that will mean I'll be able to publish a comic book with Pikachu in drag, or Mickey Mouse with blonde hair and call it "my thing".
You may own the characters, stories and whatnot, but you don't own the visual style of the characters.
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Postby Paul-Agnew » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:01 pm

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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Darkfox » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:11 pm

Mr. Penders with all due respect she still looks too much like a Sega Sonic styled echidna. Are you worred that Sega will go after you for Lara-su's character design since it's similar to the SEGA Sonic standard?
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Gally » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:29 pm

PaulAgnew wrote:
Lammy wrote:You are kidding, right ? That's Knuckles in drag.


Oh look, it's this discussion again. Really? Have we not moved on? Has Ken already explained designs rationally on several occasions?

No matter how Ken redesigns his characters, the fans are going to drone on about "KNUCKLES PLUS X". Seriously, it's a moot point and will probably never go away.


How can you honestly defend that ? He just added a wig, turned the color to pink, added some clothes straight from Sonia's collection (the Sonia from Sonic Underground) and gave him different gloves. Wow. Even I can create an echidna more original than that.
It is not a moot point. We all know you're Ken's fan, but there is no point in defending him here.
He can not use Sega's style for his work unless they allow it. Ken should NOT use that art style, nor elements that are part of SEGA SONIC (floating island/Angel Island, Chaos/Master Emeralds, Chaos force, any reference to Sonic, Knuckles or any related characters...) It is NOT hard to come up with original deas and designs without using Sega's. Ken is just trying to make money off Sonic's success, that it and that's low.
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Mavrickindigo » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:25 pm

PaulAgnew wrote:Oh look, it's this discussion again. Really? Have we not moved on? Has Ken already explained designs rationally on several occasions?

No matter how Ken redesigns his characters, the fans are going to drone on about "KNUCKLES PLUS X". Seriously, it's a moot point and will probably never go away.


Back in the day, he was writing a licensed sonic comic.

Now, He's doing his own thing with these characters. I'm sure SEGA could sue him for using their visual style. Besides, how is he going to work around stuff like Knuckles and Angel Island and whatnot?
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Postby Paul-Agnew » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:47 am

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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Luger » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:32 am

This is friggin' awesome on an unprecedented level. I really cannot wait to check out this series! :D

I have a few questions Mr. Penders, I hope you can answer them at this time.
1.) Will this series fill in the details of the lives of previous Guardians (i.e. Moonwalker, Harlan, Jordan, Mathias, Spectre, Sojourner, Thunderhawk, etc)?
2.) How will this series regard the plots developed post-StH #159?
3.) You mentioned releasing this as a graphic novel. Are you seeking a new publishing company to release it in print-format?

Ken Penders wrote:As for why now, let's just say we're at a stage where I'm confident I will prevail moving forward with my work.

Sounds like the situation in court is going in your favour. Obviously the legal proceedings are still ongoing, but it seems Archie's victory in the case is far from certain. So much for those claims that you didn't even have a chance.
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Ken Penders » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:48 am

@Luger:

Will this series fill in the details of the lives of previous Guardians (i.e. Moonwalker, Harlan, Jordan, Mathias, Spectre, Sojourner, Thunderhawk, etc)?


Right now I envision a series of graphic novels that will accomplish two goals simultaneously - (1) continue the storyline I was originally developing for M:25YL and (2) fill in the blanks of all previous echidna history, including establishing the full cultural and political basis that governs the actions of the society as well as the interactions of every previous Guardian with that society. One storyline envisioned focuses exclusively on the full history of the Dark Legion as well.

More details will be revealed in the coming weeks.

How will this series regard the plots developed post-StH #159?


The key moment for me, as far as I'm concerned, is SONIC #125. I already have an alternate take on that particular story for various reasons and will reveal why that moment is pivotal to my plans at a later time. It recently occurred to me that it was possible to take my characters and concepts and tell the stories I wanted to without saying that anything I didn't do never happened. However, at some point, unless something is worked out between Archie and myself, whatever I created will no longer be a part of the Archie series and never referred to again within those pages. How they choose to navigate those waters is their business, not mine.

You mentioned releasing this as a graphic novel. Are you seeking a new publishing company to release it in print-format?


Let's just say I have options, and the options I do have will be known by either the San Diego Comic-Con or Anime Expo in 2012. I'll worry about the forum later. Right now I'm more concerned with the graphic novel as I will also be aiming this as a potential film project at the same time.

Sounds like the situation in court is going in your favour. Obviously the legal proceedings are still ongoing, but it seems Archie's victory in the case is far from certain. So much for those claims that you didn't even have a chance.


I like my chances just fine. It's because matters aren't fully resolved that I can't get into the details yet.
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Luger » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:22 am

Ken Penders wrote:Right now I envision a series of graphic novels that will accomplish two goals simultaneously - (1) continue the storyline I was originally developing for M:25YL and (2) fill in the blanks of all previous echidna history, including establishing the full cultural and political basis that governs the actions of the society as well as the interactions of every previous Guardian with that society. One storyline envisioned focuses exclusively on the full history of the Dark Legion as well.

More details will be revealed in the coming weeks.

I couldn't possibly ask for more. Looking forward to more reveals, and I can hardly wait for the actual series. :)

Ken Penders wrote:The key moment for me, as far as I'm concerned, is SONIC #125. I already have an alternate take on that particular story for various reasons and will reveal why that moment is pivotal to my plans at a later time. It recently occurred to me that it was possible to take my characters and concepts and tell the stories I wanted to without saying that anything I didn't do never happened. However, at some point, unless something is worked out between Archie and myself, whatever I created will no longer be a part of the Archie series and never referred to again within those pages. How they choose to navigate those waters is their business, not mine.

I really hope some sort of agreement can be made with Archie so that characters like Dimitri, Remington, Julie-Su, the Brotherhood, the Dark Legion etc. can still be used in the pages of Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog. After all, the primary reason for my continued reading of that series is the characters you created and the various plot points surrounding them. If these elements become unavailable to the Archie series, it will be a pretty sad day for those comics. The only upside to such a turn of events would be that these characters and plot points would then have a venue in your graphic novel series.

Ken Penders wrote:Let's just say I have options, and the options I do have will be known by either the San Diego Comic-Con or Anime Expo in 2012. I'll worry about the forum later. Right now I'm more concerned with the graphic novel as I will also be aiming this as a potential film project at the same time.

What ever route you take I just hope they are available here in Canada. :) The film project also sounds pretty interesting!

Ken Penders wrote:I like my chances just fine. It's because matters aren't fully resolved that I can't get into the details yet.

Best of luck in the legal proceedings. :)
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Gally » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:53 pm

PaulAgnew wrote:
Lammy wrote:Ken should NOT use that art style, nor elements that are part of SEGA SONIC (floating island/Angel Island, Chaos/Master Emeralds, Chaos force, any reference to Sonic, Knuckles or any related characters...)


He's not, and he won't. Replace Knuckles with another character searching for his destiny, and there is a story fit to go. SEGA owns the rights to Angel Island, but they sure don't when it comes to A floating island itself. Not to mention the Chaos Emeralds can easily be discarded.


And what about the art style, mmmh ?
You can not say, after viewing that picture in the first post, that he's not using the Sega Sonic style.
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Postby Paul-Agnew » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:18 pm

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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Gally » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:23 pm

starting with the first image of one of the story's major characters


> greatly implies that this picture represents what we'll be seeing in that project.

You've made assumptions based off a solitary teaser image. That's like walking past a movie poster and saying the movie itself will be horrible without seeing the final product.


Seeing that the visual style is exactly the same as another one =! saying that the quality of the project will be horrible. Your comparison is flawed.
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby The_Patman » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:09 pm

Lammy wrote:And what about the art style, mmmh ?
You can not say, after viewing that picture in the first post, that he's not using the Sega Sonic style.


That design does not look like ANYTHING Naoto Oshima or Yuji Uekawa ever created. The body proportions, anatomical structure, line structure and fashion are NOTHING like anything Oshima-san or Uekawa-san ever drew. I have a Bachelor of Science in Game Art and Design and graduated top of my class. I know what I'm talking about.

Your rampant emotions are making you see what you want to see. That's all.

PaulAgnew wrote:No matter how Ken redesigns his characters, the fans are going to drone on about "KNUCKLES PLUS X". Seriously, it's a moot point and will probably never go away.


Quoted for truth. I weep for our generation, Paul.
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Gally » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:49 pm

The_Patman wrote:
Lammy wrote:And what about the art style, mmmh ?
You can not say, after viewing that picture in the first post, that he's not using the Sega Sonic style.


That design does not look like ANYTHING Naoto Oshima or Yuji Uekawa ever created. The body proportions, anatomical structure, line structure and fashion are NOTHING like anything Oshima-san or Uekawa-san ever drew. I have a Bachelor of Science in Game Art and Design and graduated top of my class. I know what I'm talking about.

Your rampant emotions are making you see what you want to see. That's all.



I'm a Bachelor in Arts, Comic Book/Cartoonist/ Animation and Graphic Design. I think I know what I'm talking about too.
And what do my emotions have to do in this discussion ? Stop defending Ken blindly, especially by bringing things that have nothing to do with this discussion.

Also:

Image

With Knuckles : Same facial features, same dreads, same spiked knuckles, same tail.
With Rouge : Same kind of body, same curves.
Same style for the socks. Dress very similar to Sonia the Hedgehog. And there are other similarities, as seen in my picture ! Oh yes, the wig is new. Woah !

Yeah, totally not the same art style, of course :roll:

PaulAgnew wrote:No matter how Ken redesigns his characters, the fans are going to drone on about "KNUCKLES PLUS X". Seriously, it's a moot point and will probably never go away.


Quoted for truth. I weep for our generation, Paul.


Are you assuming that I'm just a stupid teenager ? Sorry to disappoint. I'm a good 30 years old guy :)
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Antarctic Deity » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:55 pm

It's like Juli-Su put a mop on her head. This is just hilarious.

No, it doesn't look like official SegaSonic art. It looks like bad SegaSonic fanart.
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Gally » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:59 pm

Interesting reply from Vedj-f on Sonic Stadium:

The body proportions


He shrunk the hands and feet down, whoopee do.

anatomical structure


Erm, every Sonic anthro has the same anatomical structure save for minor variations like nostrils, jaw, tails shape, antennae, things like that. If her structure was different, she'd have six arms or be walking on four limbs or something.

line structure


Now I'm not an artist, but that sounds to me like he's saying that he drew the lines in a different style. Doesn't nearly every Sonic fanartist do that?

fashion


Cream-like dress and generic gloves and boots with accessories inspired by Tikal. With a classic Vector-like belt thrown in for good measure.

I have a Bachelor of Science in Game Art and Design and graduated top of my class. I know what I'm talking about.


1. A Bachelor degree can be bought if you want one. Gillian McKeith comes to mind for a famous example of such.
2. Having a Bachelor Degree doesn't automatically mean what you say isn't bullshit.

Your rampant emotions are making you see what you want to see. That's all.

So not only does that one person on Penders' forum have PMS, but so do the SEGA Forums, SSMB and StC-O since they've also called Ken out. :/
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby Antarctic Deity » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:36 pm

Be nice, Cream's dress looks much better than that.
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Re: COMING SOON IN 2012

Postby The_Patman » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:36 am

Lammy wrote:And what do my emotions have to do in this discussion ? Stop defending Ken blindly, especially by bringing things that have nothing to do with this discussion.


It has plenty to do with this discussion. Emotions, whether positive or negative, tend to cloud one's perspective to a degree if one is passionate about something. You are a fan of Sonic. You are obviously very passionate about it if you are studying graphic design and contributing to something like STC Online (Kudos, by the way. I like your art syle). I'm passionate about Sonic too. When I first saw this Lara-Su design, of course I got excited about it, as she is a character I enjoy very much. If I just left it at that and ran on just emotions alone, yeah, you would absolutely be correct in saying I'm blindly defending Ken. However, even if I am a fan of Ken's work, there comes a time when I have to take a step out of the fandom shoes and objectively look at the facts and do the necessary research, this Lara-Su design being just one instance of this. Judging solely on the wording of your previous posts in this thread, I can only conclude that they were emotionally driven because of either your passion for Sonic or your passionate distaste for Ken and the current situation, potentially obscuring your view of the facts. Posting remarks made by someone else on Sonic Stadium about my comments in an attempt to get a reaction out of me only further adds evidence to this and shows a lack of maturity on your part. While my line about my degree and my comment to Paul may have been influenced by my own emotions, at least I have the guts to admit to this one instance of hypocracy and take it into account before writing and submitting this post and not try to dodge the issue like you did. I'm only human, after all. If you are upset or fearful that Ken is trying to destroy or tarnish something you truly hold dear, or think he is crazy or whatever, that's fine. But let's try and be a little more civil and mature about things, please.

Lammy wrote:Image

With Knuckles : Same facial features, same dreads, same spiked knuckles, same tail.
With Rouge : Same kind of body, same curves.
Same style for the socks. Dress very similar to Sonia the Hedgehog. And there are other similarities, as seen in my picture ! Oh yes, the wig is new. Woah !

Yeah, totally not the same art style, of course :roll:


I believe there are some things you may have overlooked in this comparison. First let's take a look at Knuckles' facial features. His nose is cone based with a pointy tip while Lara-Su's nose has an elipse base. Knuckles has sharp corners for his eyes while Lara-Su's is round. Knuckles' dreads and tail have sharp tips while Lara-Su's are rounded. Knuckles' knuckles are cone-shaped while Lara-Su's are fang-tooth-shaped. Moving on to Rouge, that is a nice comparison and I understand where you are coming from, but there is no Uekawa echidna design with that body-type. For her body to be infringing on Sega trademarked echidna designs, she would have to have the same body-type as Tikal at least. However, even if you look at Tikal, her body-type is very similar to Knuckles, just with slightly wider hips. Lara-Su's arms, legs, hands and feet have more-human-like muscle structure and proportions compared to the Sega standard of round, tube-like arms/legs and large, round hands/feet. Next, Sega-standard Uekawa Sonic characters stand at maximum around 2.5 heads tall. Lara-Su can easily be seen as 3 heads tall, making her height proportions significantly different enough. Moving on to the Sonia fashion comparison, there are a couple of things I want to point out. First, Sonia's dress is clearly a two-part ensemble with two different colors compared to Lara-Su's one-piece, single-colored dress. Sonia's belt sepreating the two-piece outfit is designed signifcantly different than Lara-Su's belt too. Second, I ask you this: why do fashion designers not copyright or trademark their clothing or shoe designs? It is becuase all someone has to do is change one element, be it a button, a zipper, the stitching or anything, and the design is considered completely different in the eyes of the law. This situation is no different.

Keeping with this train of thought, I would like to share another comic book-related example of a similar situation. Back in the late 1970's-early 1980's, Disney threatend Marvel Comics with a lawsuit becuase they thought Howard the Duck was too similar to their own Donald. In attempt to make the litigation go away, Marvel decided to put pants on Howard. Howard wearing pants was a significant enough change visually to make Disney give up pursuing the suit any further, as none of their duck characters wore pants and would be extremely difficult to prosecute because of that. When you consider this anecdote, along with everything I've stated above, it should be clear that Lara-Su's design is significantly different enough from the Sega trademarked designs, let alone their female echidna design. Just because she is easily recognizable, doesn't automatically mean that she was drawn in the exact same style as Sega's characters. Using your logic, you could make the case that the original Oshima Sonic design is too much like Mickey Mouse because of his muzzle, gloves, pot-belly and eye design alone.

While I am fairly certain you will most likely dismiss everything I have just written as merely nothing more than, as VEDJ-F and the other commenters on SSMB put it, "bullshit" and probably berate me further, please do not think that my last post was a personal attack against you, becuase it was not and I apologize if you took offense to it. What I generally find disheartening is that a vast majority of the negative comments I have seen not only on this matter, but others as well, is that most of them are based purely on raw emotions, prejudice or assumptions and not on thoroughly researching the facts. Again, I admit my last post may have been done, in part, out of emotion, but the statement about the designs being different was based on what I have just written, which are researched facts, not emotion. I admitted my slight hypocracy, learned from it and moved on. While you probably won't do this, I ask that you think about what I posted here. Otherwise, go ahead and continue venting your frustrations if it will make you feel better. But as a Mod, I ask that you just don't break the rules of the board, please.
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