St. John's Betrayal Revealed (issue 233 spoilers)

[Mavrickindigo]

Everything Ian writes IS horrible; even the GOOD stuff he wrote pre-Iron Dominion Saga were flawed and ended up being a total waste, in the end. He is fanfic incarnate at its total worst,

You just called him worse than Christian Weston Chandler. Do you REALLY think he's worse than [url=sonichu.com/cwcki/Chris_and_writing]this[/url]?

The council has consistently been shown as being impotent, useless, and outright offensively obstructive. I have not seen a single story where they have done ANYTHING of note.

Hm...it's almost as if they were made for that purpose or something.

(they might as well have been manipulated by Ixus to pardon him, themselves),

What happened showed that Naugus understood what it meant to be king. He quoted the law on the matter, citing where in the law his decision came from. This shows he's serious about ruling the country. Can you think of a more effective way to show that point?

Other than that, we see absolutely JACK about what they'd do, except argue with themselves.

Because writing story upon story of legislation is what the kids want, right? Who in their right mind wants to read legislative stories in a "Sonic the Hedgehog" book? Law-making is boring.

It's stupid, and this latest takeover by Ixus just shows just how useless they are. The ass-pull of a law with the pardon is just a recent example of that.

Since you keep bringing it up, I wonder if you can tell us WHY it's an ass pull. It didn't seem so hard to understand that the king would know the laws.

more sense than random pardon.

And Naugus keeping the guy responsible for putting him on the throne out of jail is random how, exactly? There's a pretty clear reason why Naugus would want to free Geoffrey from prison: Geoffrey's treason got him on the throne to begin with.

After all, he is EVIL, right?

He's evil but trying to look good to the public.

Seriously, what freaking issue explains what all the king can do above and beyond the influence of the council? None, as far as I know; the King, while the head of the council, is just part of the council, and the whole pardon thing is the first thing I've heard of of ANY authority the king has above the council. Again, what the hell is the freaking point of a republic if the King can take over whenever the hell he wants? That just shows just how stupid and useless the Republic as a whole is.

The president of the united states is allowed to pardon one prisoner a year on his own, does that mean congress is useless? (in before tongue and cheek remarks)

As for Geoffrey being the traitor Silver seeks than Sally: One, at what point does it say that it was a MAJOR member of the Freedom Fighters instead of a reserve like Geoffrey?

Geoffrey was never a member of the Knothole freedom fighters. He was part of the Rebel Underground and leader of the Secret Service. He was never a member of the Knothole freedom fighters, the number 1 thing Silver mentioned

As for Ixus himself... again, he's OVERUSING his magic,

As for Sonic, he's OVERUSING his super speed, which I find stupid and annoying; whenever Ian needs something to make the story progress for the good guys, he falls back to their abilities to pull them out of the fire!

Honestly, I don't think he cares one lick for any of the Republic, as he becomes sole ruler.

so long
No...really? Ya think?

with glaring plot holes

what?

after the overuse of the DEL and Magitek

Say what now? What, did you want the magitek witch in the city flled with technology not to use her abilities? You want her to do what? slap people around or something? And Eggman overusing the DEL? What's next, you're going to say Mammoth Mogul overuses being fat? I'm thinking you'll need to define "overuse." How much is too much?

you guys are so goddamn insistent on defending Ian's bad writing, aren't you?

until you can say why it's bad, why not? I can respect that you don't like it, but if you honestly think its bad writing, you should be able to back it up.

For instance, I can say Penders' writing was sometimes bad, because we had a nearly omnipotent demigod thwarted by a rocketship when we knew he could easily fly out the freaking hole in the floor. That's bad writing. IF there was a reason why Enerjak couldn't escape from the rocket, then Penders should have said so.f

Ironic that not even on Ken's board can you badmouth Ian without getting slammed on by his fanboys

I don't see how it's ironic. Anyway, the reason you're being slammed is because it's being said that "Ian's a bad writer" without any real evidence. "Diablos ex Machina" ain't gonna cut it. We need facts from the book that can't be argued against.

I've explained why it's bad writing, but the defenders are just coming up with lame excuses for why it's not.

Screaming "VILLAINS ARE OVERUSING THEIR POWERS! without explaining what "overuse" is in this sense, is not explaining your viewpoint adequately, good person.

EVERY story that could've been told with Geoffrey as a traitor and being tried has now been thrown out the window with that one pardon. It's a cop out, nothing more,

You keep using words you apparently don't know how to use. Please stop. A cop out is a poor excuse out of a plot line. There was no "Geoffrey in prison" story arc being set up in the comic to have been "copped out" of.

and it ticks off the fans who wanted to see him get what was coming to him, because now we know he'[s getting off scott free for no reason whatsoever.

And really, you expect villains like Naugus to do things we admire?

[Antarctic Deity]

You're being slammed because your opinions are being formed on inaccuracies and inattention. Every point you bring up either is already countered in the book or was straight up never true in the first place (or, as a bonus third option, are completely insubstantial and don't make any sense.)
You state that Sally can't be the traitor because she doesn't WANT to be one (which is not necessarily a requirement for a history book), but Geoffrey can despite never being a Freedom Fighter (the ONLY requirement.)
You state Naugus makes the council useless even though he's never gone against them and his kingship was entirely valid, and the monarchy still existed within the Republic.
You state the only reason New Mobotropolis could want this is some Diabolus ex Machina, but there's a couple problems with that.
1) Naugus' emotional magics were always a part of his moveset. He started the Great War with them. As such, this isn't an asspull.
2) All of Naugus' actions seen by the public have been working for their cause. He protected them from NICOLE, and from Eggman when even Sonic couldn't. The emotional magics only pushed the citizens' decisions and feelings as an amplifier: it was his public actions AND the flaws of the previous monarchy that led the citizens to want him as king.
You state that the Geoffrey story is useless because he doesn't go to jail, but that's still wrong. It explains his backstory. It gives moral comeuppance (he IS guilty.) It then solidifies the current situation of Naugus' power as he uses a perfectly legal pardon to get Geoffrey pardoned (having Geoff rot in jail would undermine Naugus and Geoff as villains incredibly and considering they're just starting, that'd be stupid.) It's a transitional issue that makes the current situation more substantial, and more importantly it is OBVIOUSLY NOT THE END. What was the point of the trial? It was NEVER to have Geoffrey put in jail. Even before the issue came out, people knew that. It was to learn more about the current predicament and why the heroes were in it.

If you want to dismiss anybody countering your crazy inaccurate rants as some fanboy worship, then go ahead. But it doesn't stop your facts from being wrong.

[Luger]

I felt, considering how much of a major change this is for Geoffrey St. John, Ian did a fairly decent job explaining things. Obviously some tweeking and minor retconning was necessary to make it all fit, but not too many changes were made. While I still think it was a bad decision to make Geoffrey from a loyal soldier of the House of Acorn into an Ixian magician, what's done is done, and the explanation provided is good enough.

[BobR]

It was a dark and stormy night...

[Mavrickindigo]

It was a dark and stormy night...

I'm afraid I don't understand

[BobR]

It was a dark and stormy night...

I'm afraid I don't understand

It's a general statement referring to poor writing, or, in this case, writing being done before all aspects of the storyline or character have been developed. In my opinion, the "traitor" story line was just a throwaway comment to have a reason for SIlver to return and interact with the main Freedom Fighters. That there was no storyline conclusion developed based upon that one line. Unfortunately, now such a conclusion will have to be created, and thus the story seems forced, rather than flowing naturally. And it leads to arguments of the type being seen here.

[Tylinos]

In my opinion, the "traitor" story line was just a throwaway comment to have a reason for SIlver to return and interact with the main Freedom Fighters. That there was no storyline conclusion developed based upon that one line. Unfortunately, now such a conclusion will have to be created, and thus the story seems forced, rather than flowing naturally.

I'm not so sure about that in the case of Silver. Ian only started his plotline about three years ago, and it seems like he did at least have a general idea of who he was intending the traitor to be at that time even if he didn't plan on finishing it for a while. (In a similiar example, when Karl Bollers started the Anonymous plotline, there weren't any signs of it being finished up anytime soon, but he was intending from the start to have Anonymous be Robotnik Prime, and that only didn't happen because he left the book.)

The Geoffrey stuff is a retcon, albeit one that Ian at least did put effort in trying to make sense like Luger said, but the Silver stuff seems to have been planned since he first appeared.

[Mavrickindigo]

I think it was Paul who revealed that Mechasally was in the works for years.

[Antarctic Deity]

Yeah, the Silver stuff was obviously in the works before it started. There was specific buildup and a clear intent the whole way through (with payoff possibly happening in a couple issues.) It is funny though that setting up plot hooks without thinking them through at all is being derided here though, as there's a certain writer known for it FAR more than Ian is.

[Mavrickindigo]

Yeah, the Silver stuff was obviously in the works before it started. There was specific buildup and a clear intent the whole way through (with payoff possibly happening in a couple issues.) It is funny though that setting up plot hooks without thinking them through at all is being derided here though, as there's a certain writer known for it FAR more than Ian is.

Oh, we know that Ken had plans for that 20 years later plot hook.

Namely making the villain of his own comic series the ultimate villain of a licensed comic book

[Mavrickindigo]

I'd thought you'd all like to know that in issue 241, St. John stands up to Naugus, telling him that the time to take things is over and the time for peace is at hand. Naugus is dieing and Geoff suggests he simply asks for help in order to find a cure for his ailment.

Naugus responds by posessing St. John, taking over his body exactly how he did to King Max in "Return of the King."

[BobR]

I'd thought you'd all like to know that in issue 241, St. John stands up to Naugus, telling him that the time to take things is over and the time for peace is at hand. Naugus is dieing and Geoff suggests he simply asks for help in order to find a cure for his ailment.

Naugus responds by posessing St. John, taking over his body exactly how he did to King Max in "Return of the King."

Quick question, Mavrick. Do you have this comic, or are you referring to the previews? The reason I asked is that when I went to get my edition, it shows as having been postponed until Oct 17, a month later than its previous Sept 19 release date. I'm just curious about the month's delay.

[Tylinos]

Quick question, Mavrick. Do you have this comic, or are you referring to the previews? The reason I asked is that when I went to get my edition, it shows as having been postponed until Oct 17, a month later than its previous Sept 19 release date. I'm just curious about the month's delay.

Of #241? I don't know about him, but I've had the issue for more than two weeks. Same with a bunch of other subscribers. No idea if it's available in stores yet, though I'm pretty sure #241's in-store release date was listed as 3 October. 19 September was Universe #44's, and 17 October is Universe #45's.

[Mavrickindigo]

I'd thought you'd all like to know that in issue 241, St. John stands up to Naugus, telling him that the time to take things is over and the time for peace is at hand. Naugus is dieing and Geoff suggests he simply asks for help in order to find a cure for his ailment.

Naugus responds by posessing St. John, taking over his body exactly how he did to King Max in "Return of the King."

Quick question, Mavrick. Do you have this comic, or are you referring to the previews? The reason I asked is that when I went to get my edition, it shows as having been postponed until Oct 17, a month later than its previous Sept 19 release date. I'm just curious about the month's delay.

Subscribers usually get their books early because it's shipped directly to them from the printers

[BobR]

Ah, subscriptions. Got it. *nods* No, my comic book shop owner whom I've known for about 15+ years looked it up in his Diamond previews because he knew the last time I had stopped by was over a month earlier (before I had my hospital stay. ) In any event, carry on!