Ken and copyright

[Mavrickindigo]

I still am of the understanding that the general populace of Sonic fans (I'm not talking about people here, but fans of the work in general) do not give a crap about who is dating who for what reason or characterization of the such. I know I don't.

What we care about is that there are adventures and action and stories that make sense. I was a fan of the lame puns and silliness of the original issues, something that Ken embraced in his early work, but you don't see me whining everytime they neglect to have Sonic break the fourth wall, because having him stay within his universe makes him OOC or something like that

[Miko]

I still am of the understanding that the general populace of Sonic fans (I'm not talking about people here, but fans of the work in general) do not give a crap about who is dating who for what reason or characterization of the such. I know I don't.

1. This isn't being mad over a pairing. This is being upset at how all encompassing this pairing's become. To the degree that in order to get things between the couple where they want it, they contrort the plot and characters, along with incredibly convenient plot twists. Wowz Amadeus and Rosemary are gonna crash in on the Tails' surrogate household with the hedgehogs to set up a government RIGHT when Sally and Sonic are patching things up? There hasn't been a story on the Prower family yet for him to develop bonds with them. They weren't here for Tails' development and needlessly complicated the government system for their incredibly young targetted audience. But now even if Elias dies like he may've recklessly attempting to fight Mogul there are several other folks governing. So the arguement people were giving Sally would stay behind to consider her position as heir even with Elias around is null and void nao amirite? Yush! (and no, it's actually not)

2. A lot of the fanbase has already left (almost half of those from 20012005). So simply evaluating this book with the prospects of maintenence and not growth isn't what I'm about. There are people who liked this book that suddenly started dropping. Focusing on only those who like it, doesn't help us get back those who left or to expand further to get even more people for a much more "general audiences" appeal.


3. I'm not the only one with similar problems with this book. On boards that have a more concentrated degree of game fans, there's a greater sensitivity towards the prospects of things being messed up so Sonic can have a relationship (and with a non "SegaSawnik" character) There has always been a long standing complaint even towards SatAM that the other characters stood around while the heart of the story was centered on Sonic and Sally, and similarly it rings true in the comic. So much so that characterization, and a consistent continuity come second. I'm not saying the book has to discard Sonic and Sally's relationship. I am saying at this point as have others critical of the comic and show especially, that the staff are going waaay too far in their efforts to make it work.

[Antarctic Deity]

Once again, Ken is not just "doing a plothole." That is not why people are angry. If you really think that this is the only reason people are angry, you have no idea what's going on.

[Miko]

Actually that is why people seem angry in large part. Because if Ken prevented Archie from using his ideas, it'd deprive the story of history and characters people liked. That's the primary/worst case scenario threatsomething like this has threatened to pose.

[bwrosas]

The reason Penders is doing this, just one of the reasons in my opnion, is because maybe, just maybe, he doesn't like the direction the comic is going in, thanks to Ian.

For example, Not considering the MXYL storyline as canon, among some other things, like killing Locke, as well more then I can name.

[Mavrickindigo]

The reason Penders is doing this, just one of the reasons in my opnion, is because maybe, just maybe, he doesn't like the direction the comic is going in, thanks to Ian.

For example, Not considering the MXYL storyline as canon, among some other things, like killing Locke, as well more then I can name.

So what if he doesn't like how Ian is doing things? The only things that has the authority to change what Ian does are Archie and SEGA. Apparently they don't mind what Ian has done

[Belmontzar]

Im going to be fairly honest with some very simple basic thoughts on this issue, for me personally I mean.
I understand how you feel if someone uses your own work without your permission, or utterly ruins or messes up the past of he characters you have created. I am a life long gamer and while my RP characters are not as well known or important as Kens Sonic characters... I happen to feel the same way with them. If I had taken this time to flesh out and create a character for a comic, one id taken Lots of thought into and who was fairly important to the story, and later one a new writer comes in and rewrites my chars history to the point where they are no longer recognizable.. id be kinda angry. However sadly this event happens Many times and far too often in comic books. Look for example at all of the characters in the Marvel and Dc universes.. How many times have the writers utterly messed with or ruined important things about the iconic characters? My Mothers favorite Comic book heroine, Psylocke, from the Marvel universes, has been altered, Changed and resurrected/killed off, so many times she is barely recognizable anymore.. Hell higher level characters like Batman (Dc) and even Spider man have had HUGE changes to their story lines.

but theres one major difference as far as I know.. the creators of those characters never complained when new writers took over. FANS did. You mister Penders are one of the only comic Writers ive heard of, whose actually stood up in defense of their creations. YOU are sir, and I applaud you for that honestly. However.. I do not think you should have forbade Sega or Archie from using your things, I thought you should have just required more feedback form your work, or notices about your work. I also feel that it was kinda silly to forbid Sega and Archie because.. well.. They ARE all set on the Sega created world. and all have close relations to Sega characters like Sonic the hedgehog and such.. I also think that its unfair to simply rip away all of that history, especially for newer readers liek us. I have been a fan of Sonic and tails since I first played sonic 2 for hte game gear. Only recently have I discovered the Sonic Archives books in my local library.. Finally a chance to read the comic books everyone had been talking about. I have wanted to read them for years now and then they are finally released...

And now if I read things right.. no more of them are coming out.. no more archives, means outside of illegal downloading.. no more comic catch up for me. I understand why your upset, but.. are you really halting the releases and distributions of the Archives stories? If so, please tell me your gonna make a similar thing so that the old sonic fans can catch up in the comic? I want to read the full story.. and want to do it legally and in a way I can share with my little sister Rowena. If I have gotten any facts wrong please let me know, and any information of reading or finding past issues of the Archie sonic the hedgehog comic would be greatly appreciated.. thanks..

[Mavrickindigo]

Maybe the other creators didn't fight for their characters, because they knew that when they wrote those stories, all of the characters and stories they made were property of the company, and not legally theirs.

Though the fact that Ken does vocalize his discontent with these changes is something I haven't heard other writers try to do, so that's a plus, I guess.

I just wish he would have tried to mend things in a way that didn't burn his bridge to SEGA and Archie

[Belmontzar]

I agree completely with that. on a buisness sense, id have liked to see him form a better partnership with Sega and Archie. Not only would this possibly open doors for Sonic Comic related Videogames, But woudl also make it easier if Ken wanted to do his own books with the cast, and without worrying about Mobius Sonic, Sega problems. He also coudl have used Archie to help promote his new work, or he could have worked for them as well as an independent writer. Making his stories, with his people, and for his fans, but under his own jurisdiction. Working further with Sega and Archie might have exposed more people, such as the Sonic game players, or other Archie comic readers, to some of Kens other work as well. Im all for standing up for your own creation, but keep in mind who exactly created the world your characters live. Ken did help evolve Mobius, but Sega, and Sonic, are the reasons Mobius even exists. Chaos emeralds, Power rings, all of those are Sega copy right as are the zones and world itself.

again I understand why Ken did what he has done, but from a business sense, he could have made MUCH better choices.

[Omni]

Maybe the other creators didn't fight for their characters, because they knew that when they wrote those stories, all of the characters and stories they made were property of the company, and not legally theirs.

But, apparently, not Ken...

Though the fact that Ken does vocalize his discontent with these changes is something I haven't heard other writers try to do, so that's a plus, I guess.

Complaining is all well and good but this goes much further than simple complaining. He's attempting to wrestle control of his past work from Archie and SEGA more than likely because he knows that he's got nothing going for him that will be nearly as lucrative. And the "its for the characters' sake" angle bothers me. If that was true then why didn't he do this when he was still at Archie and the powers that be started screwing with his characters and storylines? Because he was still getting paid by them at the time.

I just wish he would have tried to mend things in a way that didn't burn his bridge to SEGA and Archie

Or do so in a way that causes a schism between Ken's fans and Sonic/Archie/SEGA fans as a whole.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to use a print I got from Penders at SDCC '09 as toilet paper while I try to scratch his signature off my SatAM box set...

[PaulAgnew]

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to use a print I got from Penders at SDCC '09 as toilet paper while I try to scratch his signature off my SatAM box set...

Be cautious of what you post Omni, as there is a thin line between having a honest and constructive opinion, and being flat-out slanderous.

[BobR]

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to use a print I got from Penders at SDCC '09 as toilet paper while I try to scratch his signature off my SatAM box set...

Be cautious of what you post Omni, as there is a thin line between having a honest and constructive opinion, and being flat-out slanderous.

Actually, that would be libel.

[SynjoDeonecros]

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to use a print I got from Penders at SDCC '09 as toilet paper while I try to scratch his signature off my SatAM box set...

Be cautious of what you post Omni, as there is a thin line between having a honest and constructive opinion, and being flat-out slanderous.

Actually, that would be libel.

Either way, it's not exactly the kind of thing to say on this board. If you dislike how he's handling this, fine, I don't think anyone on here can honestly say they're in full, unmitigated support of it, but what Omni just said would be similar to me voicing a desire to dress up in a Rotor costume and rape Ian Flynn in it while bashing him over the head with a copy of his Other M comic for what he did to the comic; it may be my opinion, but it contributes nothing to the conversation but inflammatory bashing and really should be kept to myself.

[Immortheus]

Synjo, you want to do... what?! That's... waaaaay overboard.

[PaulAgnew]

Actually, that would be libel.

Yes that would indeed be a more correct term.

Synjo, you want to do... what?! That's... waaaaay overboard.

He meant it as an example. Though fans have posted worse on other sites.

[Belmontzar]

yeah omni thats kidna over board.. when you could sell them on Ebay and make money lol^^ but yeah points understodo and all. -nods- hmm. I reall am wondering how the sonic sereis will go form here.. now that alot of stuff has been taken out.. Im also wondering how well accepted Kens solo work will be if he continies with his own characters..

by the way that Random little game idea has been runnign around my head..id seriously liek to know what sort of Script Ken woudl right fo rhte game.. if hes even thought of it.. -blinks-

[Mavrickindigo]

Either way, it's not exactly the kind of thing to say on this board. If you dislike how he's handling this, fine, I don't think anyone on here can honestly say they're in full, unmitigated support of it, but what Omni just said would be similar to me voicing a desire to dress up in a Rotor costume and rape Ian Flynn in it while bashing him over the head with a copy of his Other M comic for what he did to the comic; it may be my opinion, but it contributes nothing to the conversation but inflammatory bashing and really should be kept to myself.

Ohh, I see what you did there, you clever devil, you.

yeah omni thats kidna over board.. when you could sell them on Ebay and make money lol^^ but yeah points understodo and all. -nods- hmm. I reall am wondering how the sonic sereis will go form here.. now that alot of stuff has been taken out.. Im also wondering how well accepted Kens solo work will be if he continies with his own characters..

by the way that Random little game idea has been runnign around my head..id seriously liek to know what sort of Script Ken woudl right fo rhte game.. if hes even thought of it.. -blinks-

It's been a few months now and the comic has yet to show being effected by this in any way

[PaulAgnew]

It's been a few months now and the comic has yet to show being effected by this in any way

That's possibly on account of how everything is written in advance, so if the book were to be affected, most of the waiting stories would be printed.

[Belmontzar]

Well like I said before I only just started reading the comics thanks to the archives books at my library, and I don't like jumping into things when I don't know the story.. (I Might just be weird like that, I just want to read everything up to the point.. I am the same way with book series and Manga series. ) So I cant really comment on how a comic book has been affected when, like the person above said, the affected stories have not been released, and I have not read many of Ken Pender's comics yet to really form an opinion. Simply put I am the Classic Sonic fan, been a fan of every one of his games that I've played (Including Shadow if you consider that a sonic game or not, and the ill received Sonic Shuffle.) who's finally found a chance to read something Many of my friends have talked about.. and I am worried that Ill have to stop when I have only just begun really.

I also talked about Game storyline because, in all honesty, that's the only way right now that I'm able to judge anything about him as a writer.. I Know games, and a writer who can right a really good story for a game, definitely has my backing, specially if he was a writer for the games comic series. Yes I'm a Noob in this area, but I want to read and learn.

[Mavrickindigo]

Well like I said before I only just started reading the comics thanks to the archives books at my library, and I don't like jumping into things when I don't know the story.. (I Might just be weird like that, I just want to read everything up to the point.. I am the same way with book series and Manga series. ) So I cant really comment on how a comic book has been affected when, like the person above said, the affected stories have not been released, and I have not read many of Ken Pender's comics yet to really form an opinion. Simply put I am the Classic Sonic fan, been a fan of every one of his games that I've played (Including Shadow if you consider that a sonic game or not, and the ill received Sonic Shuffle.) who's finally found a chance to read something Many of my friends have talked about.. and I am worried that Ill have to stop when I have only just begun really.

I also talked about Game storyline because, in all honesty, that's the only way right now that I'm able to judge anything about him as a writer.. I Know games, and a writer who can right a really good story for a game, definitely has my backing, specially if he was a writer for the games comic series. Yes I'm a Noob in this area, but I want to read and learn.

A word of warning to you, my friend. If you want to know about the comics in general, this is the wrong forum to be on. First of all, discussion of the comics outside of Ken's work is banned (he stopped working on the comic around issue 159, which was over 4 years ago). Second, people's opinions here tend to be EXTREMELY biased (the reason discussion of the comic outside of Ken's work is banned is because of a flame war that erupted because of people with varying opinions on the current state of the comic)

That's possibly on account of how everything is written in advance, so if the book were to be affected, most of the waiting stories would be printed.

Possibly, but if what I hear is true, the next story arc that involves St. John and the Kingdom of Acorn is going to be the beginning of a big event that will conclude in issue 225. I'm not sure how a large event could happen if halfway through the arc, the majority of the characters and concepts from the games became completely unusable.

[Luger]

It'd be nice if we got some kind of confirmation one way or the other what's going to come out of this. As it stands it seems like Archie's still got full control over all the characters created by Penders and this whole copyright thing has had no affect on the stories written. Let's just hope Ian doesn't ruin Lien-Da's character more than he already has when she's scheduled to appear next in StH #219.

[Mavrickindigo]

It'd be nice if we got some kind of confirmation one way or the other what's going to come out of this. As it stands it seems like Archie's still got full control over all the characters created by Penders and this whole copyright thing has had no affect on the stories written. Let's just hope Ian doesn't ruin Lien-Da's character more than he already has when she's scheduled to appear next in StH #219.

I don't know, I found her more interesting during Ian's run.

Though I was 10 years old back in the Knuckles comic, so anything more deep than "Good guy versus bad guy" bored me.

[BobR]

Luger, reference to any of Ian's stuff at this point is banned from the board. Please understand, this isn't any personal bias on either Ken or my parts, or we wouldn't ask you not to post. Thanks....

[Luger]

Luger, reference to any of Ian's stuff at this point is banned from the board. Please understand, this isn't any personal bias on either Ken or my parts, or we wouldn't ask you not to post. Thanks....

My bad, I didn't know mentioning something in passing was bad, I'll keep that in mind.

[BobR]

Thanks!